Why Relationships Still Matter Most in Sales with Thom Soutter

Okay, guys, welcome back to the podcast.

It's great to always have interviews and guests with sales experts, as you always know on the, on the, on the group and.

Yeah, well, this time I had a gentleman who I know has got a fantastic career in business development.

He's worked all over the world, he's got a huge amount of experience and knowledge and he's building some, ripping up some trees in a new role that you've recently taken on.

But welcome to the podcast.

Tom Seater, how you doing?

Hi, James.

Thanks very much for having me.

I'm very good, thank you.

Long time listener, sort of first time involved with you.

So thanks.

Very happy to be here.

Yeah, great.

Look, when we, when we spoke initially, we talked about your sort of background and role.

So for those who don't know, you tell everyone a bit more about what you do and the history you've had.

You've been in sales a long time and we'll unpack some of those elements and what's worked for you.

But yeah, talk to everyone about what your, what your, what your history's been and what you're doing now.

No, thank you very much.

So, yeah, 20 year history in business development now.

So I've worked across few sectors, so legal, healthcare, I've worked abroad, so we started off in the legal sector in Manchester.

I've worked in business development roles across those kind of industries in Dubai, London and now I'm in my current role as sales and marketing director for ExamWorks UK, which is a group, a portfolio of businesses, 12 in the stable now.

And we're looking at cross selling across those different business units where there's overlap, where there's cross selling, where there's synergy.

So it's a huge group and a big challenge, but one that I'm very much enjoying.

Amazing.

And to talk to people.

So when I ask people the first question around, you know, you've been in sales for 20 years, like you say, and you've, you've been in a lot of roles.

How did you first.

What, what got Tom into sales?

Can you remember?

Yeah, it's a really good question, I think from my side, hopefully where.

And we'll come on to this where it's a little bit lucky in terms of sales background and understanding the other pieces in the jigsaw is I actually was working in a law firm out of university doing fee earning, training to be a solicitor.

Had some team manager experience there.

So across the oper, which I think is always a good time with people that do well in sales because they understand how businesses operate.

And at the time one of the business development managers just hopefully saw something in me and offered me the chance to do business development.

And as a young, well, maybe 24 year old, I didn't really understand what that meant.

I was told that it might mean I get to play a bit of golf and I might get out of the office a little bit.

And I thought, well, actually that sounds a little bit better than just trying to become a lawyer or going down that route.

So I kind of jumped to the chance and I've never looked back.

So it was more of a, A, an opportune moment I think with the right person believing in me than any sort of desire to get into this.

And then I realized hopefully I was quite good at the different elements, not just the sales, but in terms of the business development and the people side of things too.

And then it's kind of gone from there.

So yeah, it's a bit of a. Yeah, it was a different start.

It's always interesting because you've.

Having that first person that sort of believes in you is really key.

And that first person, I guess, you know, is, is always, you know, sometimes a bit of a mentor or someone that is a, is a real, you know, key person influence on your life basically.

Can you remember a number of the things that they sort of showed you and taught you or engaged with you at the time that sort of stuck with you since then?

Or was it a case that you just learned other people since that time?

No, I think you learn.

Look, I've been very lucky that I've had various roles in the last kind of 15, 20 years, but the roles that I've been in for a reasonable amount of time over multiple years I've had very strong leaders and people that I can learn from.

So the first person that gave me that chance, I think it was more around how to treat people, how to follow up, how the human side of sales, you know, it was all about relationships.

It wasn't about getting to the commercial endpoint as quickly as possible.

It was, as you all know, sometimes these sales cycles can be long months, years in some instances.

I mean I've got some stories of particularly things overseas that took years to build.

Sometimes they don't come off.

So it was more to do with being thick skinned, how to approach it.

And I think a lot of that advice then is still things that I try to apply now really.

So I think it's learning from people that have been there before you, that know what they're doing.

And being humble enough to learn every day.

So I think they're the biggest lessons that I learned from, from that person.

And then like I said, I've been lucky that because of that role, I've had inspirational people at every role that I've had since above me and, and they're kind of teaching you the ways and how to be.

It's amazing because even though you know someone like yourself who's achieved a lot of success and, and got to a senior director level in business, always got that learning mentality.

And it is a thing that I talk to a lot of salespeople about that, you know.

You know, the mind has got to be continually open to try and learn new things and learn and pick up new elements, isn't it?

But it's a, it's a real important factor because there is, especially with the world changing so quickly as well.

We always have to stay ahead of the curve.

So how do you, you know, obviously, you know, what's the, what's the key things you do to try and, you know, make sure you stay that way?

Really?

Yeah.

Look, I think, I think the biggest thing for me is, as you've said there, it's having that appetite to constantly learn and being not afraid to admit when you don't know something.

I think a lot of people in sales roles, they feel that they've got to get to the end as soon as possible and they have to know every single point, have to be ready with every question.

I think what I've learned, hopefully with age is that I'm not afraid to say if I don't understand something.

Times they might be the stupidest questions that you're asking.

But if you're asking that person and you're prepared to listen to the answer, then also you're going to find out their pain points, you're going to find out the difficulties for them.

So I think, don't be afraid to kind of say, I'm really sorry for my ignorance on this.

Can you explain that a bit further?

And I think that the biggest thing for me, which was a huge eye opener, is obviously I went to work overseas.

My first business development role in Dubai was for an Arabic law firm, which was a huge sea change from what I was used to and operated in a different way.

The regulations obviously were different, how things were, how business was dealt with.

I found that very different to kind of here in the uk, where you might get an answer and it might be, we'll do that tomorrow, or you'd get a quite straightforward Answer there things seem to be a bit more convoluted.

You weren't had to read between the lines a lot more.

There was a lot more nuance in the sales.

So I think that taught me a lot and made quite a few, you know, mistakes along the way, which you learn from.

So yeah, I think that's.

Yeah, that would be what I.

And you mentioned nuances.

I think that's a really important thing.

I talk a lot about in sales around the emotional part of selling which the ability to read like say between the lines and situations did that.

Was that something that, that experience and having to, you know, by the sounds things working where things were as straightforward and you know, did it really hone and harness your emotional intelligence skills?

I guess from a sales perspective, I.

Think so because it's quite humbling when you put in a situation where you don't have all the answers and I think you have to think on your feet a little bit more and then you're learning from people in different environments and I think that was invaluable.

And I think that the biggest thing that, that taught me, which perhaps I didn't have from previous sales background and answers your question earlier about that sort of thirst for always wanting to learn is that I think what you realize with sales is unless you're doing a boiler template type service or industry that you're selling to, it's not one size fits all.

So what that taught.

I've got a lot better at kind of listening to the customer and he's trying to understand what their point, pain points are.

They're going to be entirely different from somebody else, you know, and you have to understand that that workflow is it operationally, is it it based, is it what, what's their drivers, what's, what are their kind of key indicators and what are they looking for?

So I think once you're put in a situation where you're not comfortable, you have to sink or swim really.

And I think in that situation you have to find the best of it and try and thrive and figure out different ways.

So yeah, I think it makes you.

Much more adaptable and, and, and just go back to that obviously the element of selling in Dubai because a lot of people obviously, you know, there's a lot.

You've obviously gone from Dubai back to the uk.

There's a lot of people at the moment going the other way around, isn't there?

And going, going UK to Dubai.

I mean is there anything that would be just if anyone's listening to this, that you know, is thinking of, of going out to try and build a career and selling Dubai.

What would be the top two or three tips you'd give them to be successful in business development or a business role out there?

I think that we, in my journey out there, I moved out there with an Australian company and was tasked with setting up their office out there.

And we didn't really know what we were doing.

And that's not to be disparaging about anyone.

We kind of just went for it and took a chance.

And as much as that turned out okay in the end, I would say the biggest thing would be to do your research, look at the market that you're entering, find out the competitors, find out if there's a space for you and really do that.

Listen to people that have trodden that path.

I mean, I was lucky enough in Dubai, which is probably slightly different to other jurisdictions, but nobody's really from there.

The Emirati population is a very small percentage of Dubai.

So you can learn, people have been there before you, you know, they've gone there and tried to set up and learn from their mistakes.

And I think the biggest thing, as I alluded to before, is it's not one size fits all.

So you'd see so many people arrive, you know, it's now paved with gold, isn't it?

Dubai.

And I think I'm has gone the other way.

I'm becoming like the poster child for coming back to the uk, honest.

And I think it's just kind of, there's so many people that just had that plug and play attitude, oh, what I've done here has worked.

So what I'm going to go and do there is exactly the same and it just doesn't at all.

You have to understand the local cultures, understand how business operates, the different aspects of that.

And I think you have to be humble and I think that they do.

What I realized there is looking at people around them, people that failed, is if you go in there with an attitude of, you know, I've done this, I've done it here and it's worked and how well established it is there, they won't like that and they want to see the commitment to kind of the local community.

So it takes time and I think you have to be thick skinned and you have to be prepared for the long game.

It's really as you say that because it's, it's such a great point.

You mentioned it.

So, you know, some of the points you mentioned there about adaptability and the ability to do Your research and the ability to, to, to, to adapt to the long game.

It does make me think sales situations in general because there's a lot of people, again, people think Dubai is this paved with gold and get over there and suddenly you could be doing this incredible thing.

And it's the same as a lot of people in sales.

People say, oh, sales is, you know, just go and do this, sell it and you'll be, you know, but, but actually things do take time, it takes effort, it takes work.

And is that one of the things that you've noticed in your career, you know, especially when now you're, you know, working with salespeople is that that want to, for a quick, quick buck or quick success or quick, quick, quick wins is always the challenge that a lot of salespeople seem to come up against and maybe come a cropper against.

Yeah, I think the biggest thing, and this is obviously in the market that we're all in now, there's AI, there's all sorts of things changing things and there are things, things do happen very quickly for certain businesses.

But I think the biggest thing for me is people still buy from people.

It's all about relationships and whatever sector that you're going into or leaving or whatever, you should never burn any bridges.

You need to spend time with those people, you need to understand their wants, their desires.

And I think you learn that as you go along.

And I've been out the country, out of the UK for almost a 10 year period and luckily, because I played hopefully that long game and I kept relationships, I've come back into a role that I now love purely because I was able to come back into a network.

So I think a lot of sales, they go for that quickbook or that quick immediate and actually it's a real turn off for a lot of buyers.

They want to know that you're not saying you have to take them out for dinner every week, but they want to know that you're in there to support them, that if they need you, they can ring you and you're not going to be gone as soon as the contract signed or as soon as that first checks arrive.

So I think it's for me it's always been and it will always be about relationships and building them long term.

And yeah, so sorry to interrupt the podcast, but if you've got a sales issue at the moment that's really hacking you off, challenge me, I'll help you solve it.

Reach out to me, drop an email at hello, James White Business and I will help you Solve your sales challenge.

There's not one I don't think I can't handle.

There's no sales issue that I can't resolve.

I've seen them all over my career.

I want to help you solve yours.

So reach out to me.

Let's make sure we handle your sales challenges and fix them so you can get back to smiling again.

Now back to the podcast.

I think it's such a good point and it's one of the things that I talk to people a lot about in terms of the AI revolution that's happening and going on around it, which is, and you're right, people still buy from people.

And I think that the human element of people is still a critical part of that.

That human aspect and that ability to build a human connection with someone and to really make them believe and see that you're on their side and aren't trying to just sort of, you know, the biggest mistake a lot of salespeople make is that whole element of doing it just for their own good rather than necessarily for the real good of the customer is that some of the other, you know, ask your question about common mistakes you've seen in your career, not just in Dubai, but in the uk and as you've come back, what are some of the common sales mistakes that you see?

You know, maybe younger salespeople, younger than us, maybe, you know, making or people that are in new to the role, what things you see, I think, and.

Look at this, this is.

Hindsight's a wonderful thing.

And this is easy for me to say in the role that I'm in now with sort of two decades of experience.

But I think a lot of the time people, they go in with that attitude.

They want to make the quick sale, they want to do things as rapidly as possible.

But actually, health permitting, hopefully we're all going to have long careers.

And if you're in sales, there's a tendency you're going to stay in there.

So the idea to me is that you look at people that have longevity and have performed in a role over a long period of time.

That to me is a measure of success.

I think whatever sector you're in, you'll see these people who will move from one job to another 12 months here, 12 months there, and actually they're not building any foundations.

And ultimately, I think in.

And that will come back to bite you if that's the sector that you want to continue to work in.

So I think not putting those foundations in place, thinking of yourself and not thinking of how you can actually serve your company that you're working for, but also the customers.

Because if you build those two relationships, anything could come from it.

There's work opportunities that could come down the track, doors will open that you didn't expect them to.

So I think that for me, and then in terms of businesses, I suppose it's having a good pipeline, but then putting no structure around that.

And that's what we're trying to do where I am at the moment, and we're doing that nicely.

But it's that lack of where things go into the abyss.

You know, you might have a target that you've been working on for six months, but ultimately you get bored of that and it falls by the wayside.

And then you might find out later that they've gone with somebody else simply because you didn't play the long game for long enough.

So I think it's having the pipeline, managing your existing customers, but also keeping people warm and be prepared to take the nose move with them, not take them personally, and come back again when you think there's an opportunity.

So it's having those different.

It's being organized as well, isn't it?

Fundamentally it is.

But it's interesting because you're in a business development role.

And I always talk about us being the spear of the arrow.

We're the people that generally go, and we're the strikers in the football team that score the goals.

Right.

I know you connected.

You guys did some work with Bolton Wanderers, but we're the strikers that score the goals.

But the challenge around, you know, that is that we.

We also have, you know, like you say, to be patient and accept that things take time.

And one of the.

The mistakes that a lot of people I see, you know, seem to make, they say there's that pushiness, there's that desire to just get something done before it's ready.

And I guess the challenge with that is, you know, and some people aren't taught.

That's a question.

I mean, where did your sales, you know, did you get training when you.

When you first went into sales, did you know who.

Was there any men in particular that sort of brought you under their wing?

The business development person you mentioned, how did you learn the skills you have?

And was it just through learning and reading books or whatever?

Or did you.

Did you go on a course?

Tell me.

No, I mean, look, I've done various courses over the years, and I think, as you were saying before, it's that thirst for always trying to sort of develop and learn more Things and like when I was working for an Australian business, I qualified as a health informatician just because I felt it would help my current role.

So I'm open to all of those things.

But I think really, I think the biggest thing that hopefully helped me was because I had a bit of a background in operations.

I'd done team management, I'd done business development.

You talk then about being the striker, if you will, and being the head of that funnel.

I think it really helps to understand everything that goes into that because you do best salesperson in the world.

But once you bring that on, if the operations fail it immediately your credibility shot as well.

And I think don't balance that or they don't understand how the ops operate or what the business drivers are and that or what the marketing, marketing and sales because could be completely misaligned.

So I think for me, because I'd had a by luck, I would say a grounding in a lot of those things and hopefully then once I started I thought actually I'm not bad at this.

I love people, I'm interested in people.

I'm that kind of annoying friend that's always asking people what they're up to in the WhatsApp and keeping in touch with people.

And I think my friends would all say I'm always the one that tries to bring the groups together and stuff.

And I think you have to love people and I think if you've got those things and a bit of organizational skills, you can learn the rest as you go.

So I think the background in my career really helped me and I'd recommend anyone that's in a sales role to try and understand the rest of your business as well.

Because if you're going at it as a lone wolf, in my experience, it won't work.

It's such a good point.

I talk a lot of time about bringing on BMW customers and people want to bring, you know, big business on board.

But if you bring on beer pitchers, moaners and whiners, you know, that tend to then create problems in other areas of the organization or want the best price but you know, want champagne taste and beer pockets and yeah, suddenly you've got other parts in other departments, you know, questioning and querying you as to what you've done and like you say, it just doesn't then turn into good business.

I would say not all business is good business.

Right.

There are some things you've got to turn down and how, how did you, you know again.

But it's easy for us, isn't it.

We're a bit older, we've sort of learned those skills.

For anyone that's listening to this that's maybe a bit younger, is there anything that, you know, you practically tell them to do when they're talking to new prospects or new opportunities where they can sort of.

Yeah, they don't want to waste their time, but they obviously do want to buy their time.

So it's sort of like.

Yeah, and play the game.

So is there, you know, any tips that you've used that have helped you to sort of like, you know, make.

No.

To make that judgment?

I think the couple of key things, and this is, you know, we've all read various books and is.

Is try to be interested in them as a person.

And I don't mean that in a fake or an insincere way.

Listen to what they're telling you.

I think what goes a long way in sales is somewhere, it's like some of the old Dale Carnegie stuff or some of the.

If somebody in a meeting has told you something about their family or something that's important to them, make a note of that, learn that about them, and then ask next time.

And then funnily enough, the more you do that, I mean, the more it does become completely natural.

And actually, you want to know, last time I was here, you told me that, you know, your son had that football game at the weekend.

How did it go?

And I think it's just being human.

It's listening to what the pain points are for them without ramming down.

This is us.

These are our commercials.

This is what we can do for you.

It's like, well, tell me about the situation.

Tell me why we're here meeting and what we can possibly do to solve that.

So I think you have to be interested in people.

That would be the biggest piece of advice that I would give.

And then something else really simple that anybody can adapt.

That I've learned early.

And it's kind of stuck with me because people have taught me is just being organized.

And that is into.

Because when I was trying to be a solicitor back in the day, you'd have a task list, you'd have reminders every day.

And I think you take a lot of those behaviors with you and it's kind of planning your day the night before.

Because we all know in sales, James, you'll know much better than I.

You can wake up and something's happened or something else is coming in.

Your whole day's derailed because you do meetings, you're called into something else.

You can't focus on what you actually wanted to do at the start of that day.

So I think if you've actually blocked out the time, and of course, life doesn't always work as black and white, and that you try to block out the time and say, I want to achieve this today.

This is how I'm going to get there, then actually you find that's really easy to kind of replicate the more you do it and the more consistent you come.

And that comes with work, with fitness, with anything.

And before you know it, you're doing things that you kind of never thought you would do just simply by being consistent and being organized.

I couldn't agree more on this.

It's funny.

One of the things I talk about a lot and in a lot of the podcasts and videos and things I do around sales, being around consistency and discipline, and actually, you're right.

And that organization and it's, it's.

I also talk a lot about sales being debits and credits and little things that I say to people.

You know, your credits are when, you know, you, you send them a proposal when you said you would, or when you get their name right, or you, when you remember their kids, you know, play, you know, football thing or a dinner they were going to, those little credits build up.

And the debits are when you forget to do something or you misspell their name or you do those things.

And sales is ultimately a debits and credits game.

And actually the key thing at the end of it is making sure you're in the credit right where you've got enough in the credit compared to the other people.

But it's those, you know, it's so great to hear you saying, because I think that organization is a challenge sometimes for a lot of salespeople because, you know, things we, you know, everyone knows CRM systems, no one wants to update them and all those other elements.

But yet, you know, if you've got a big pipeline, you can't remember everything for every customer you're speaking to, no matter how good your memory is, whereas that's what systems are about.

So I think it's great advice to be organized.

And I'm guessing that's the things you tell your team now, right, to be organized, everything.

So they're moaning at me to get, you know, put, put, update the CRM and do things like that.

But there is a value for yourself in doing it, isn't there?

There's a huge value, and I think it's just maintaining, like, wherever I'VE been.

Whenever I've left that organization, the kind of handover piece has been so thorough.

I'd like to thank anybody.

Anybody listening would back me up on that.

And I think that's because you want somebody to be able to take that on if you're not around or, you know.

So it's kind of make.

It's documenting everything, making sure that everything's clear.

And like you said before, it's not being afraid to.

If something doesn't work for you, just being open and honest.

And that's something difficult.

I think a lot of people shy away from sales or feel uncomfortable with it because it's a bit.

Can be a bit crass, it's a bit out there.

You've got to take the rejections.

You've got to.

And I think hopefully with experience is that it's okay to say no and it's okay to be.

People actually will respect you more if you say we can't do that for these reasons.

But.

And in six months or let's look at this or whatever.

So it's.

It's all of those things really.

But I do think experience is a.

Is a big thing in that as it's time.

Yes, it's one of, it's one of the things I talk a lot about in a sales situation is the bit, you know, I actually think I call it the sales release valve.

When you go into a prospect meeting to say to the prospect, hey, look, we may, you know, we'd love to be able to see if we can provide some ideas, but if we can't help out, hey, there's no dramas.

We, we're going to, you know, we want the what's best for you.

And if we're not the right solution, we'll.

We'll.

Hey, if we're not a good option, that's fine.

And, And I've said to people so many times, oh, I can't say that I'm like, you take the strain away from the other person.

You, You.

Sales is not about.

If you put pressure on it, it actually makes it worse when you take that pressure away and you really focus on what's right for them.

Even if you don't win the business there and then you.

You basically build a reputation.

I had someone talk to me a couple of days ago about a deal that they didn't win from a year and a half ago.

But the per.

The prospect had always remembered how they were treated with.

When they engaged with that person.

And they were remembering the fact that they had been spoken to in the right way and the way that it had been left.

And when that deal and then that situation, that solution that they'd implemented hadn't gone well, the first person they came back to was the guy that was trying to help them in the first place.

And he got the deal a year and a half later.

So it just shows you've just got to have these ways of operating.

But I think it's a shame because sometimes people don't teach you that and it will tell you that and you have to learn sometimes in the hard way.

Exactly.

It.

I think I've had deals.

One.

One deal that springs to mind.

When I was in the Middle east, we were working on something in Saudi Arabia and it took three years to get that over the line.

And that was process that then was taken back in house and delayed and then came out and.

And you know, you have to just keep in touch and understand that you have to be there for them, but without coming across as pushy.

Yeah.

And like, like you said there, that you have.

And you can only learn that through maybe losing a couple of those and then understanding how the process ultimately works.

But.

Yeah.

And how different is.

Yeah.

Do you think.

Obviously.

But from.

From wanting to, you know, that length of time.

I guess, you know, selling in the Middle east, because everyone does want to sell.

You know, they see there's a lot of money out in Saudi and Dubai and those areas you mentioned about being.

Becoming familiar with the culture and knowing the environments.

But any other.

Any other tips you'd say to anyone?

Because obviously there might be some businesses listening to this that want to sell out into the Middle east and want to sell out into Dubai, into those areas.

I mean, is it a case of going over there and doing their research like you say, or is there any other tips you give?

People out there want to see boots on the ground, so they do want to commitment.

So this going in, I'll visit for this conference and leave with a load of money and a load of days are gone.

But I think what's interesting now and what I find really exciting about our sales, and when I say sales, for me that means business development, because I think sales should also be good at account management.

They can do bd.

They can link those things together.

But I think ultimately if you're going there, you need to show that commitment.

You need to show that you're willing to listen to what they want and be there frequently.

But not only that, there's so many different dynamics to sales now that there could Be a strategic partnership.

It could be a referral arrangement, it could be you don't want an office, maybe you want a local partner.

Do that for you and they can white label something for you.

So in any sector now, I think we've got so many more options than we used to.

It could be that you partner with someone on events and you host your own event to say, look, looking at this market, these guys have done it, we could partner with them and see if there's any interest that way.

So I think the world, particularly with COVID now, has got a lot smaller.

So there's loads of opportunities, there's loads of people that have trodden that path you want to go on.

So I would say put your ego to one side and listen to people that have done it.

That would be my advice.

Yeah, amazing.

So can you remember.

So if I talk to you about your best ever sales win, is there a win that comes to mind where you think, yeah, that was one that literally felt really, really, you know, it felt great getting that one done, signed and sealed.

I think, look, the first one's always special, isn't it?

And it's funny.

Can you remember what, tell me what that first one was like for you?

This one would have just been securing, I say just.

But it would have been securing an account for a local law firm and I think the ones that give you the most satisfaction.

So I still work with some wonderful people now that in this role that luckily I knew a long time ago and we've reconnected well now.

And no matter what stage of their career they're at, the really good salespeople still have that hunger for the sell.

They still want it, that's what drives them.

And I think the best ones for me are ones that you either bring on board to a business and then you may well leave that business, your career goes elsewhere.

But then you hear or you realize that five, ten years later, that account is still locked in there, they're a key customer of them and they've been there forevermore.

And that would only happen with good business development, building that trust and then working with the various operational departments to make sure they're onboarded properly.

So for me, I think I couldn't really single out one, but I think it's one where you've worked on an account for a long time.

So for example, the business I was at last time, we sold into doctors and hospitals and you would often.

I would be involved at the front end because when we were just getting things going, we're almost like a startup up and you'd be convincing them to use your software, you'd be bringing them on board.

And as I left nine years later, they've been a client for nine years.

They love the service, they've given Google reviews, they've heard colleagues, all of those things.

And I think that's the way that's where you, you, that for me is the real win.

You know, you've built that relationship and they're there, they're a customer for life.

It's such a good point.

And it's funny, I was talking to someone a couple of days ago about sales compensation plans and I was talking to them about actually, you know, making sure that people realize the value of a, of a sale and we talked about this exact thing because sometimes, yeah, I'm not saying it happens all but there are times for CEOs and you know, certain people, you know, in other rules, you know, CFOs can sometimes be, oh, I don't see the reason why I've got to give commission for, for, for, you know, for giving up this 10, 20, 25% on this deal value.

And I had this conversation, I said to them, you've also got to look at the average lifetime value of the customer and if you've got a large soft, a large deal like that which has gone for nine years, providing that they're making money, which is a different issue, but it should be making in the business, that deal is probably worth, you know, millions maybe in terms of revenue to that business that's been brought in by, by one salesperson.

And it's interesting, isn't it, that it's.

Commission plans are always an interesting conversation to have.

But when you look at deals like that that obviously you've brought on board, you think, yeah, I'm glad I was paid what I was paid for that because I should have been.

Exciting thing.

And I think that if you look at my, my current role, there's, there's lots of business units with wonderful people in them and I'm almost trying to act like a bit of a conduit at try and see because this role is rated because of the growth trajectory that we've been on and there's all these different cross sells that actually it's incredibly exciting because I think I was listening to one of your podcasts recently and obviously the more services that a customer takes from a business, the more likely they are to be kind of stuck for life.

Yeah, that's from a value proposition.

It's making it Innovative for them commercially and operationally, it's streamlining their workflow.

They're just maybe dealing with one entity.

So I think all of those things, if you look at the sales in relation to that, where there's multiple businesses and kind of cross selling involved, it just heightens what you've said there.

So, yeah, completely.

It's also about reducing risk.

Let's talk about it from a client's perspective.

It's about risk and for a buyer's perspective and ultimately, when they're buying something, their big warning signals, their antenna signals are about, is this going to work?

As we say it's going to do?

Well, your antenna signals are far.

It's like when you go to a restaurant you've been to before or a hotel you've been to before because you know what it's like.

That's why we go back there, because it was great last time.

Therefore, if I'm going to have a romantic, you know, Valentine's Day is coming up.

If I'm going to have a romantic dinner with my, you know, my wife, my husband or whatever, then the reality is I'm going to be in a position where I'm going to go somewhere I know what we've been before, rather than a new restaurant, which might sound great, but then it, you know, goes to on the night, basically, and then you're thinking, well, hold up a second, I'd rather go to the place.

I know that.

And it's that risk aspect that I always think saying sales people are.

If they could be transformed in, transported in through time six months into the future and they could see your solution working for them, they'd buy it.

The reality, they just don't see that.

And that's why, you know, if you've got one service already with them, it's far easier to sell two, three and four from there, isn't it?

Well, that's it.

And I think when a lot of those services are complementary and there's potentially things in it for them in terms of discounts or economies of scale and all those really cool.

So, yeah, I think it's really exciting.

Yeah, amazing.

So, look, we got a few minutes left on the podcast because I appreciate you've had a long day at work and we.

And it's good to go through these things.

But talk to me a little bit about a couple things I'm interested in, especially in sales management now because you've obviously moved into a sales management sort of leadership role and you know, you've got a role now to To.

To espouse and to.

To get people on board with things.

What are some of the things that you've had to do over your career to.

To motivate and.

And cajole and get other people in.

In the business that work with you and for you alongside to your direction and where you want to go.

I think the key thing is it's almost.

I sound a bit like a broken record, but bringing it back to the.

The human element of it, I think, is an individual.

And some of those people won't come along on the journey, and that's fine.

It's understanding the individual.

Where do they want to develop?

What are their needs?

What are their kind of desires for their.

Of the career and.

And trying to build something together.

You know, you can't do it on your own, no matter how good you are.

And I think you have to bring people with you.

And the worst sales people I've seen, and I've seen quite a few now and work with some are people that are just always convinced they're right and it's their way and everybody's going to follow them, and it's a dictatorship that's passed down.

And I personally, I don't think I have that in my makeup, but I couldn't.

I couldn't do that or work for somebody at that.

So I think what you try to do is understand what everybody can complement the team and how do we best get those best redeeming features and what they want to do out of those people?

So it's having a plan, it's working as a team.

And for me, especially in a leadership role, I think it's communication and trying to be as transparent as you can.

Obviously, you can't share everything.

There's hierarchies of business.

But I think if there's something that people will benefit is passing that information down and it's saying to them, look, we're going to do it this way for these reasons.

And I always try to seek counsel from people, you know, my peers, colleagues, people that I'm managing.

Whatever it is, there's always a different slant and a different idea on things, and I think it's best to listen to those before you move forward.

Yeah, amazing.

I love those ideas.

So.

So look, a couple of final questions for me before we.

Before we finish, you know, for.

For today.

I mean, obviously, AI is a.

Is a.

You know, I'm asking everyone this question around AI right now because it's a big, you know, issue.

We're not issue, but it's a it's a fundamental change in the world of what we're doing at the moment.

How is, how do you see as a business development director AI impacting the work that you do, you and your team do, and what are the bits of it that you think people can harness more?

But also some thoughts, advice on how someone in your role is doing that.

I think it's a really interesting thing and some of the tools that we have at our disposal now are so useful in terms of preparing for presentations or rebounding ideas and looking at different structures of different things, how you want to present things.

But I think the biggest thing for businesses our size is where we can develop people further and take some of potentially the mundane tasks off them that they're doing day to day.

So we've got, as I've said, 12 businesses.

There's a lot of administration within there, medical reports, a lot of admin functions, and it's understanding where that can harness the business, where it can free up some of maybe that experience, then be taking up other tasks.

I think in terms of sales, I think it just opens up more avenues to research and also to be able to maybe reaching the right people with the correct information a little bit quicker.

So we've got various projects around different areas of AI bound, value care proposition around the business, and I think that will only continue.

And I think it's an exciting world, but it's a scary one.

And I think what we've got to be doing as salespeople is again, it's communicating that and communicating why we're making changes and where we think they will improve ultimately efficiencies for the client, streamline workflows, make instructing us easier, online portals, all of these things, whichever type of AI it is.

I've worked with kind of language models before and high data kind of depositories and things.

So it's trying to understand the best fits for your business, but making sure that you're communicating those to the client clearly.

But watch this space because it's moving at a rapid pace, isn't it?

It is.

And one of the things I still believe we will be, and I still say this to people right now, if you're in a sales role, I still think that's one of the most, you know, I could be wrong.

You know, when you see Optimus and these sort of robots coming out and you think, well, you know, the next few years could be, you know.

But I always say to people right now, I'd still, if I'm an emotionally intelligent salesperson that has the ability to build relationships and communicate and connect with people.

I still think we're safe for a good few years.

Not saying for how many.

Might be two or three or four at least, I hope maybe five or ten, but we'll see.

But compared to, you know, roles where there is no thought process but, or there is no communication process, where it's just, just, you know, I, I, for example, I work in, with some, some organizations in the investment space at the moment and a couple of investment managers.

And I say to these guys, there is a, there is an AI tool that's doing your job better than you right now.

You've got to focus on being the human element, to engage with the people, rather than being, trying to, you know, trying to fight that off, because there's no point trying to do that.

So it's, it goes back to those elements, like you say, about being human.

Build those, and build those, you know, EQ skills, those abilities to connect and build relationships with people.

Is.

You're not going to go.

I don't think you're going to be unemployed for a few years.

A robot's not going to replace you for a few years.

Or when you.

Or I think that's exactly it.

And I think when you work across kind of multiple businesses like you do, and obviously, like I said, we've got businesses in the group that I work for.

It's the nuances and the complexities of that cell.

It's not a black and white, it's not one side, it's not taking something off a shelf.

Every client has a different need.

That doesn't mean that you can bespoke every offering to every single person you come across, but it's knowing the right trigger points, what will work for them.

And I don't think.

Yeah, I don't think we're in any danger just yet.

Well, hopefully not as though we could all be in a lot of trouble otherwise.

But.

So before we, before we go, Tom, what's the future hold them?

Obviously you've come back to UK to talk to us about the role with Exabix and what's the future hold for you in the next few years?

What's your big goals for what you want to achieve over the course of the next 12 to 24 months?

Yeah, look, I think for me, I think because it's a newly created role and a very exciting one across different business units, we're very much at the infancy, so I'm very excited.

I'm looking at hopefully a very much A long term play.

And I think if we're here in 12 months, 24 months, and we're talking about a steady, stable sales team with a very good pipeline with opportunities coming in across the group cell and not individual business, actually large ticket wins for multiple businesses in the group.

I think that for me would make me very, very happy.

And I think because of the aggressive growth that we have planned, I can only kind of see that go one way because of the caliber of people that are around me and working with me.

So, yeah, very, very excited, excited to be back, back home.

And I think that's, that's for me the biggest driver of the next few years.

It's going to be a very exciting time.

And before we go, that pressure of that, you know, it's exciting and I love the thing, but it also comes with that, you know, as I always say, with us in sales, we're always, we're in unfortunately, you know, a pressure situation.

Right.

We've got those growth plans are probably on your shoulders to achieve.

Right.

So it's, it's part of the, the, the fun though, isn't it, to be able to go and see that and to think, right, I'm going to tackle this head on.

I think that's it.

And I think as long as you're organized, you can only do so much in a day that you can do.

You know, we all work long hours.

Provided you're listening and trying to develop and learn and you're not going into it and just trying to force things, I think that's all you can do.

So if you're doing that and you're good at what you do, the results should come.

And I think that, yeah, I think that's the bit that excites me.

It's, it's knowing that there is so much to achieve.

It's such a big challenge.

Yeah.

And I think that that's the kind of stuff that I think you either really want to get stuck into that or you don't.

And I think if you've got that sales acumen or that drive, I think that shouldn't be something that puts you off.

Yeah, exactly.

Well, big, big goals and big rewards, hopefully for you.

So where can people reach you?

It was great to chat to you and chat to you all evening, but conscious you've come back for a long day and you've probably got 101 things to do from today.

So appreciate you being on the podcast.

But, but where can people reach you if they want to reach out and connect and hear more about you guys and just, you know, your story and what you've done.

So thank you very much.

Well, yeah, probably the typical answer for this.

I'm on LinkedIn, so it's Tom with a H. I'm not Swedish.

I have no idea why my parents spelled it that way.

Tom Sutter on LinkedIn.

And I'll happily connect with anyone.

I think like we said there, it's all about.

There's always something to learn from every conversation.

So I'm very happy to connect and answer any questions or.

Yeah, learn more about other people as well that might listen because thanks to you because I've found this, your podcast over the last few months, incredibly helpful and there isn't many that actually tackle the issues that you do, particularly in the UK market.

So thanks for having me on.

It's an honor.

Yeah, no worries at all.

Absolutely great to have you with me and thank you so much for, for sharing your insights and your ideas.

And I'll put a link to, to Tom and to his LinkedIn profile and, and his website on the, on the, on the, on the podcast links.

And yeah, we look to, you know, as I say this, the whole point is to learn from experts that have been there and doing it and taking on challenges right now.

So if you can't learn from Tom, then you can't learn from anyone.

So thank you so much for being on the podcast.

It's great to have you here.

Thanks very much.

So that was Tom Suiter.

So great to have Tom on the podcast.

As always, I love to bring guests on board that have got experience and skills in business development and sales and winning new business.

So if, if you think this is you, you're listening to this and you think, actually I'd love to be a guest on the podcast, let me know.

But also if you'd like to be able to recommend someone as well that can share ideas like Tom did there, then we'd love to have you on board.

But that's it for this week's podcast episode.

Thanks for everyone.

Thanks for listening.

You're listening, you're listening.

Your eyes, your ears, as you always do, to help us out and grow the podcast, to help more, reach more people.

And until next week, we'll see you then.

Take care.

So thank you so much for listening to this episode.

I hope you enjoyed.

If you have, please subscribe to the podcast.

It helps us ensure more people can get the insights and ideas they need to get incredible sales results.

Look forward to seeing you on the next episode.

Sam.